Technical Forum

SIMATIC WinCC

Structure Tags

Thread Starter: Jochen1955 Started: 10/26/2009 8:53 AM Replies: 31

10/26/2009, 8:53 AM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Good Moring to you all,

Need a small favor. I’m new to WinCC.

1) What is the easiest way to add a “structure tag”.

2) Can you rename a current “structure tag”.

3) Can you delete a “structure tag”.

Regards

Top

10/26/2009, 10:04 AM

Palmerita

Joined 7/25/2008

Last visit: 11/8/2010

Posts: 102

Rating:

Rated: Outstanding [3.14 out of 5 / rated 7 time(s)].

(7)

(0)

Hi Jochen!
You can add them in the WinCC Explorer, in the "Structure Tag" window.
You can rename and delete them as long as you dont have tags of this type. If so, then you first have to delete them and then you will be able to make any change into your structure.

Top

10/26/2009, 2:20 PM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi Palmerita!

If I go to "structure tags" I do have structure in place.
The problem is I added extra element in two of the DB under S7.
Called "Boiler" and "Drum".

Lets take for example only one structure tag.
These structure is called "Boiler" under Boiler I have "Boiler1/Boiler" up to "Boiler6/Boiler".
If I right click under Boiler I see the old Boiler structure not with the new element added under S7.
If I click properties all areas are greyed out. How can I make them active that I can add the last element.
Is this possible.

For example "Boiler" stucture is as follow:
AT_FW Real
ST_Flow Real
TOT-Reset Bool etc
All things here are greyed out.

Now Boiler1/Boiler up to Boiler6/Boiler
This poins to the DB number in which CPU with starting DB14 0.0
Here the same all things are greyed out.

If I rigth click on "Boiler" there is now Delete possible.
If I where to delete structure Boiler I would lose sub-set Boiler1/Boiler up to Boiler6/Boiler.

I hoop this makes it more clear in a sense.

Regards

Top

10/26/2009, 2:31 PM

Tagolover

Joined 9/6/2008

Last visit: 5/20/2013

Posts: 986

Rating:

Rated: Outstanding [3.84 out of 5 / rated 55 time(s)].

(55)

(0)

Hello jochen1955

Can u be little clear, sad

can u be more specific

or can u attach a screen shot..... cool

TAGOLOVER

Top

10/27/2009, 5:50 AM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi,

I will today do some screen shoots.

Regards

Top

10/27/2009, 1:06 PM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi All,

IT seem you can upload 1 picture at a time.
Picture 1 shows the structure tags under WinCC.

Regards
PS I will add Pictures one by one.

Attachment:

Picture 1.jpg (97 Downloads)

Top

10/27/2009, 1:08 PM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi All,

Picture 2 shows pop-up tab and some areas greyed-out.

Regards

Attachment:

Picture 2.jpg (72 Downloads)

Top

10/27/2009, 1:10 PM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi All,

Picture 3 shows was done by double click on "Boiler" structure.
Picture shows "Boiler" structure contents and other settings are all greyed-out.

Regards

Attachment:

Picture 3.jpg (60 Downloads)

Top

10/27/2009, 1:13 PM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi All,

Picture 4 shows sub-structure of Boiler called "Boiler1/Boiler"

Regards

Attachment:

Picture 4.jpg (52 Downloads)

Top

10/27/2009, 1:14 PM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi All,

Picture 5 is right-click on "Boiler1/Boiler" and select properties.

Regards

Attachment:

Picture 5.jpg (56 Downloads)

Top

10/27/2009, 1:16 PM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi All,

Picture 6 shows the properties of "Boiler1/Boiler" and all selectable areas greyed-out.

Regards

Attachment:

Picture 6.jpg (34 Downloads)

Top

10/27/2009, 1:34 PM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi All,
Looking at Picture 3 I need to add another element within this structure tag "Boiler". If you can call this a element within the structure.
I have modfied this DB in S7.

What is the easiest way to do this.

Regards

Top

10/27/2009, 3:00 PM

Ammy

Joined 4/19/2008

Last visit: 5/11/2013

Posts: 1261

Rating:

Rated: Outstanding [3.96 out of 5 / rated 113 time(s)].

(113)

(0)

Hi Jochen1995

To edit or Delete The Structure Tage You must be Deactivate The Runtime So you can able to Change the Structure.

I have seen in Screen shot your project is in runtime. so deactivate the project.

Ammy.

Ammy

New for every one..............

“No duty is more urgent than that of returning thanks.”
If Problem Solved......!

Top

10/27/2009, 3:16 PM

Sydney

Joined 1/4/2008

Last visit: 3/6/2013

Posts: 687

Rating:

Rated: Outstanding [3.41 out of 5 / rated 82 time(s)].

(82)

(0)

Hello Jochen,
as first - it's possible to send all the pictures in one packed file (e.g. zip)
From the tag naming convention and the view it looks as PCS7 or at least WinCC integrated in Step7. If so then the solution is compiling the OS. If not the solution was already written here, you wan't be able to change the structure if it's already used. After deactivating of runtime you should make the tag export (and for sure the backup of the project), then delete the structure tag instances (BoilerX/Boiler), change the structure and then create or import back the instances.

Regards
Sydney

Top

Thank you for this post from:

S_Moderator

10/28/2009, 6:58 AM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi Sydney,

1) After deactivating of runtime you should make the tag export (and for sure the backup of the project), then delete the structure tag instances (BoilerX/Boiler), change the structure and then create or import back the instances.

My question to you is will I be able to add one more element to this "Structure Tag".
Or do I have to redo the whole "Boiler" structure tag.

Regards

Jochen

Top

10/28/2009, 8:28 AM

Tagolover

Joined 9/6/2008

Last visit: 5/20/2013

Posts: 986

Rating:

(55)

(0)

Dear Jochen1955

1. U can zip the pictures and attach it, it will make it easy to view togue

2. You have to quit the runtime before deleting the structure instance.

3. Before all of this please kindly take a backup, just in case.

4. Be carefull, as you have modified the db in S7 program, the address could have been changed.

Please check.

5. If you delete the structure instance, make sure you note down the Tagname in which it was generated orginaly and the address

6. After modifcation of structure , you have to regenerate the tags,

Please note : I have said that noting the orginal tag name is done so that the changes will not affect the place where the instance has been used. After regeneration.

Have funn cool

=== Edited by Tagolover @ 10/28/2009 8:29 AM [GMT ] ===

TAGOLOVER

Top

10/28/2009, 9:57 AM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Tagolover

1. U can zip the pictures and attach it, it will make it easy to view

2. You have to quit the runtime before deleting the structure instance.
Ok I know how to do this.

3. Before all of this please kindly take a backup, just in case.
I did a Project Duplicator, is this ok.

4. Be carefull, as you have modified the db in S7 program, the address could have been changed.

Please check. DB14 will stay DB14 in all Boilers, Address? give example. I don't know what you mean by this.

5. If you delete the structure instance, make sure you note down the Tagname in which it was generated orginaly and the address. I will do PrtScreen.

6. After modifcation of structure , you have to regenerate the tags, Will I be able to insert the last element to the old Structure tag called "Boiler".

7. Then I need to regenerate the instance tag called Boilerx/Boiler. all six of them.

Please note : I have said that noting the orginal tag name is done so that the changes will not affect the place where the instance has been used. After regeneration. What you mean by regeneration?

Regards

Top

10/28/2009, 10:42 AM

Tagolover

Joined 9/6/2008

Last visit: 5/20/2013

Posts: 986

Rating:

(55)

(0)

Dear jochen1955

1. In your picture 4 the boiler structure has 6 instance, if u deleted them u have to regenerate this instance again. blink

2. The change that u say is added in the last line of the DB, ther is no need to worry and you can add the change in that db.

But if you have inserted or modified the db in the middle or in the first then the address of all the parameter will get affected, astonished

3. Yes u can use project duplicator to do a backup. Rnf:lblSmileyTooltip_

have fun

TAGOLOVER

Top

10/28/2009, 2:25 PM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Tagolover

1. In your picture 4 the boiler structure has 6 instance, if u deleted them u have to regenerate this instance again.

Yes I know this. I have a manual called "Working with tags" they talk how to create a "Structure" tag" but now where are you told how to create the instance tags. This is still a problem for me?

2. The change that u say is added in the last line of the DB, ther is no need to worry and you can add the change in that db. I added in the last line of the DB. OK on this part.

But if you have inserted or modified the db in the middle or in the first then the address of all the parameter will get affected,

Does not effect me.

3. Yes u can use project duplicator to do a backup.

How to recover from a Project duplicator backup. If you could give me short run down if possible.
I will also do a search and see what info I get.

Regards

Top

10/28/2009, 3:51 PM

Sydney

Joined 1/4/2008

Last visit: 3/6/2013

Posts: 687

Rating:

(82)

(0)

Hello Jochen,
the structure tag instance is created automatically in the structure folder while creating the individual tags of the structure. The tags are created in standard way, in the desired connection create the new tag and in its properties in the DataType section select from the list (at the bottom under standard types) the structure you want and in the Address section fill in the begginning of the structure in the PLC. After confirmation the individual external tags are created in here (if there's any internal tag in the structure then it's created in the "Internal tags" folder) and the structure instance is shown in the Structure tag/<StructName> folder.

Regards
Sydney

Top

10/29/2009, 5:47 AM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi All,

The more look at this project the more I stumble into a brick wall.

I did stop WinCC. I then tried to delete structure instance.
This is where the problem lies.
Pop-UP window.
Delete one Object.
The selected object is read only or containes read only objects.
The deletion procedure has stopped.

I went to windows and looked at the WinCC2 project folder. All files are read only.
Wanted to change from read-only but stay read only?

This is where it ends.
I'm off with flue.

Regards

Top

10/29/2009, 11:10 AM

AppeltaartD

Joined 9/11/2009

Last visit: 4/10/2013

Posts: 72

Rating:

Rated: Outstanding [3.75 out of 5 / rated 4 time(s)].

(4)

(0)

You know you can't modifiy a structre if there is still a tag existing with that structre type.

Top

10/30/2009, 7:57 AM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi AppeltaartD,

So the best would be leave current DB in S7 and structure (BOILER) and instance (BOILERx/BOILER) as ease in WinCC.
Then create a new DB called FEEDW and add the two element I need for this DB.
Then create the new structure under WinCC called (FEEDW) and instance (FEEDWx/FEEDW).

Is this how you would approach reaching the final goal.

Regards

Top

11/2/2009, 1:15 PM

AppeltaartD

Joined 9/11/2009

Last visit: 4/10/2013

Posts: 72

Rating:

(4)

(0)

I haven't looked at all your screen shots and can't give you any advise atm as I don't have the knowledge for it. I'm really busy atm so I can't offer help for the time being.

Kind regards,
Appeltaart

Top

11/2/2009, 5:47 PM

Sydney

Joined 1/4/2008

Last visit: 3/6/2013

Posts: 687

Rating:

(82)

(0)

Hello Jochen,
it points me back the thought about PCS7 or WinCC integration to Step7 so maybe the tags were generated while compilation. Please try again to check this possibility. The case with a creation of the paralel structrure won't probably help, because of the way how the tags are used in runtime. If create something new, then the new structure with all the data together as one structure.
But anyway, as I mentioned, we don't know the whole project so if we advise you how to change the structure, maybe it wouldn't help and maybe it could even badly affect something else in project...

Regards
Sydney

Top

11/3/2009, 12:16 PM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi Sydney,

PCS7 and WinCC is not intergrated. Every Boiler has it own PLC. All Boiler PLC are connected via Ethernet. WinCC1 and WinCC2 and design station with S7 is also connected via ethernet.

I created a new DB19 called "FEEDW" which at this point only consist of two elements. made modification to BOILER1 to BOILER6.
DB19.FEEDW_RESET is a Bool at offset 0.0 is S7_m_c true.
DB19.FEEDW_TOT is Real at offset 2.0 is S7_m_c true.

Now under WinCC under Structure Tag.
Structure Called "FEEDW"
BOOL FEEDW_RESET offset 0 bit 0 All external tags.
REAL FEEDW_TOT offset 2 length 4 All external tags
TEXTREF #blocktype All interrnal tags.
TEXTREF #comment All internal tag.
TEXTREF #areaname All internal tag.

If I click on Structure Tag. On the rigtht hand side of the screen I see"No Objects" found.
Why is this?

An help would be appriciated.

Regards

Top

11/4/2009, 1:29 PM

Sydney

Joined 1/4/2008

Last visit: 3/6/2013

Posts: 687

Rating:

(82)

(0)

Hello Jochen,
if you chose this way, it's almost done... You've already created the structure so now you could create the tags. I wrote the way in some of the previous posts:
...the structure tag instance is created automatically in the structure folder while creating the individual tags of the structure. The tags are created in standard way, in the desired connection create the new tag and in its properties in the DataType section select from the list (at the bottom under standard types) the structure you want and in the Address section fill in the begginning of the structure in the PLC. After confirmation the individual external tags are created in here (if there's any internal tag in the structure then it's created in the "Internal tags" folder) and the structure instance is shown in the Structure tag/<StructName> folder...
The S7_m_c attribute is useless when you create the tags manually, it's used as I wrote before while compiling OS (either PCS7 or WinCC integrated to Step7 project).

Regards
Sydney

Top

11/4/2009, 8:38 PM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi Sydney,

Last couple of questions. Is S7 completed, do i need to do more in S7.

...the structure tag instance is created automatically in the structure folder while creating the individual tags of the structure.

Eplain? The tags are created in standard way, in the desired connection create the new tag and in its properties in the DataType section select from the list (at the bottom under standard types) the structure you want and in the Address section fill in the begginning of the structure in the PLC.

Is this in WinCC? Explain please. After confirmation the individual external tags are created in here (if there's any internal tag in the structure then it's created in the "Internal tags" folder) and the structure instance is shown in the Structure tag/<StructName> folder...

Regards

Jochen

Top

11/5/2009, 12:13 AM

Sydney

Joined 1/4/2008

Last visit: 3/6/2013

Posts: 687

Rating:

(82)

(0)

Hello Jochen,
the speech was about a structure tag change/create, you've created the variables in Step7 which is sufficient for creating and connecting the WinCC tags, additional use in PLC program depends on their purpose. Yes, the description of tags creation was for WinCC. The tags you create in the appropriate connection in the Tag Management under Simatic S7 Protocol Suite and used channel. When the tags are created, you'll see the structure tag instances in the structure folder on right side like as it's in the other structures folders...

Regards
Sydney

Top

11/5/2009, 8:01 AM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi Sydney,

Running again into a brick wall.

Made the FEEDW=DB19 visable under S7 (Special properties .......Operator Ticked this setting).

Now under WinCC.
Tag Managment.
      Simatic S7 Protocol Suite
            TCP/IP
             Add Tag.
             Name Boiler1/FEEDW.TOT_RESET I cant create this it does not allow me to put     "."down.
Data type is selected as bit.
Start value I select DB19.D0.0 which I select from the menu.

Is this the correct way to go or not.
Under the TCP/IP is see all other tags created.(Boiler,DRUM, etc.)

Regards

Jochen

Top

11/5/2009, 1:17 PM

Sydney

Joined 1/4/2008

Last visit: 3/6/2013

Posts: 687

Rating:

(82)

(0)

Hello Jochen,
it wasn't correct, I'll try to explain it more detailed. Again the property of the DB is useless while manual tag creation, but it doesn't matter. In the WinCC you should create just one tag of the structure type, all the individual tags from the structure with the dots are created automatically.
So on the place where're the other tags as you wrote add a new tag, the name is to be just "Boiler1/FEEDW", in the DataType section select from the list (at the bottom under a standard types) the structure you want (FEEDW) and in the Address section fill in the beginning of the structure in the PLC (DB19,D0.0). After confirmation you'll see all the individual tags created in here, the text internal tags in the Internal tags folder and the structure instance "Boiler1/FEEDW" in the structure tag FEEDW folder.

Regards
Sydney

Top

11/5/2009, 2:52 PM

Jochen1955

Joined 9/17/2009

Last visit: 11/5/2009

Posts: 22

Rating:

(0)

Hi Sydney,

Tnx for your support.

Sumary in short.
Under TCP/IP create new Tag.

1) Name: Boilerx/FEEDW where x is numbers 1 to 6.
2) Data Type: FEEDW
3) Address Section: DB19,D0.0

and Under Structure Tag.
Structure called : FEEDW was previously disccused. What the structure looks like.

And all instance Tags created Automaticaly.

Now I need to test.

Regards

Jochen

=== Edited by Jochen1955 @ 11/5/2009 8:18 PM [GMT ] ===

Top

Actions

Copy Link

To conference