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Developing an Electric Substation SCADA

Thread Starter: jm1983   Started: 7/15/2012 2:14 AM   Replies: 8

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  7/15/2012, 2:14 AM
jm1983
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hello colleagues,

My team and I will participate in the automation of several electric substations of our company (but we haven't any experience and knowledge in this field ) and after we pretend to communicate this power automation system with the process control system ( it is using the PCS7 v6.1 SP4).

I have the idea of using for the power automation system a SICAM PAS to which all the electric control equipments will be connected and the SICAM PAS CC as SCADA (is this correct ???), but I need to clarify several doubts:
- Which softwares are used at SICAM PAS unit ? There is compatibility between those softwares and the PCS7 v6.1 (respect to information interchange, for instance OPC protocol)?
- The SICAM PAS acts besides, as an OS server or we need servers that reads the information from it and after share this information with the OS clients ?
-Where is installed the SICAM PAS CC ? Is the same logic of WinCC servers and clients projects? 

I would thank any help or suggestion that you can give me. sad

 



=== Edited by CS Moderator @ 7/17/2012 7:55 PM [GMT ] ===
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  7/18/2012, 9:24 AM
Mike J
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Hi

I highly recommend contacting your Siemens partner.

Sicam PAS and PCS7 are from different sectors in Siemens and they should coordinate the integration.

Mike
Energy Automation products: Sicam, Siprotec, Digsi
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  7/18/2012, 10:24 PM
jm1983
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Hello Mike J and thank you for respond me.

But could you help me with the previous questions ??. I don't know nothing about automation of Electric Substations, this it is a new field of work for me.
- The SICAMP PAS is a software similar to the PCS7, does it contain in SICAM PAS CC ??

Respect to the communication between PCS7 and SICAM PAS, I think that it is posible by OPC protocol, because it is a standard protocol.

thanks in advance 
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  7/19/2012, 11:50 AM
Mike J
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Hi

What is your experience? S7 and Industrial automation?

I don't know much about PCS7, but it has more or less the same idea of PAS: it communicates with the devices (data concentrator), have automation functions (CFC) and sends information to control center or local HMI.

PASCC is another package, based on SimaticWinCC.

PCS7 and PAS can communicate via OPC, by the compatibility I meant installing both on the same machine. I wouldn't recommend it.


Mike
Energy Automation products: Sicam, Siprotec, Digsi
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  7/19/2012, 2:48 PM
jm1983
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Hi Mike J,
Yes, my experience is with S7 and Industrial automation.

Then, I interpret to the SICAM PAS as STEP 7.
The PAS CC is installed at clients PCs and the communication is directly with the SICAM PAS (installed at SICAM station unit) by OPC protocol ?
Or I need besides servers with PAS CC servers projects (like WinCC server projects) that realize the communication with the SICAM PAS (installed at SICAM station unit) and shares the information with PAS CC client projects ?

By compatibility I didn't meant installing both PCS7 and SICAM PAS on the same machine, but access from my process control network (for instance, from a server or client PC) by OPC protocol; using the client OPC.chn of WinCC  and the server SIEMENS SICAM PAS OPC DA Server.

If  PAS CC is based on Simatic WinCC technology then,
it projects function as OPC server like OPCServer.WinCC ?

There is some document that describes compatibilities between the diferent versions of SICAM PAS
and PAS CC ??

thanks in advanced.
 
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  7/19/2012, 3:30 PM
Mike J
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Hi

PAS doesn't have PASCC/WinCC. To communicate to PAS you must have a PASCC Server (WinCC with the amount of Tags requiered to your project). Then you can have PASCC clients.

The communication between PAS and PASCC is with a proprietary protocol. In WinCC with PASCC you will see a new channel called PAS Channel.

As said before, I don't know PCS7. Considering a pure WinCC, I don't recommend connecting WinCC to PAS using OPC protocol. You will loose any fast event, and by fast I mean several miliseconds and maybe seconds, as OPC DA works with pooling.

The PAS and PASCC connection doesn't work with polling and has buffer. It has a wizard to import all variables, messages and tag logging parameters to WinCC.

Yes, there are compatibility documents between PAS, PASCC and WinCC, but I cannot send then here in forum. You have to contact your local Siemens partner for this.
Energy Automation products: Sicam, Siprotec, Digsi
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Thank you for this post from:
dchartier
  7/19/2012, 7:42 PM
Navnag
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Hi jm1983

There are a few options available in SIMATIC for Substation control, you can check the same if these meet your requirement.

We have been prequently using SIMATIC ( Sometimes PCS7 ) as well as SICAM-1703 for Substation control systems. Never used SICAM PAS though.

If you have to use PCS7 then this may be the best solution for you :

a) You can use SICAM- TM1703 ( For Small substations ) or SICAM AK1703
    ( For Large Substations ) to communicate with Protection relays on IEC61850
    / IEC 60870-101 / 103 / 104  or other standard protocols
    This can provide all tags to Telecontrol Server over IEC 60870-104

     Check out the link :

https://www.automation.siemens.com/mcms/process-control-systems/en/distributed-control-system-simatic-pcs-7/simatic-pcs-7-technologies/telecontrol/pages/telecontrol.aspx?HTTPS=REDIR

  
b) Alternatively you can use S7 Hardware with SIPLUS RIC software to communicate
     with the relays ommunicate with Protection relays on IEC 60870-101 / 103 / 104 
     This can provide all tags to Telecontrol Server over IEC 60870-104

Check out the link :

https://www.automation.siemens.com/mcms/topics/en/siplus/ric-telecontrol/pages/default.aspx?HTTPS=REDIR

a) Use PCS7 Telecontrol Server acquire the data from SICAM / SIPLUS RIC

https://www.automation.siemens.com/mcms/process-control-systems/en/distributed-control-system-simatic-pcs-7/simatic-pcs-7-technologies/telecontrol/pages/telecontrol.aspx?HTTPS=REDIR

Hope this helps

Cheers

Navnag
There is no such thing as the last bug in a program
There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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  8/16/2012, 8:02 PM
jm1983
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Hi Mike J and Navnag,
thank you very much to respond me and excuse me for not having responded before, but I was on vacation.

Ok Mike J, but then:
Could be possible to communicate a WinCC Server (or Client) from the Process Control Network and a PASCC Server from the Power Automation System by OPC protocol ?.

The PASCC Server would have all the information actualized.
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  9/4/2012, 3:30 PM
Mike J
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Hi

I didn't understand. You want a pure WinCC connected to process control, a PASCC connected to PAS, and between both WinCC and PASCC an OPC link?


Mike

Energy Automation products: Sicam, Siprotec, Digsi
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