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Selection of an equivalent motor.

Thread Starter: PISCEAN 2010   Started: 6/15/2012 9:08 AM   Replies: 12

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  6/15/2012, 9:08 AM
PISCEAN 2010
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Hello Experts,
On one of heavy duty lathe, for rotation application of main chuck, following specified DC motor is used.
General Electric Direct current Motor
Sr. No 7177900, HP 250, RPM 300/1500,
Type OD-1761Y, Amp-875, Volts- 230, Exc. Volt – 230, Wound SHUNT, COMM – 55C,
INS WDG – 40
We would like to replace this motor by an equivalent but AC motor. Can any one suggest me which series & rating Siemens make motor, to be selected?
Thanks in advance.

DEEP.
Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I will remember. Involve me and I will understand. -Confucius
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  6/15/2012, 10:33 AM
TechTeam
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Hello,

in this power range the 1PH8 would fit. The motor exists as synchronous and asynchronous version, forced ventilation and water cooling.

Please follow the link:
https://intranet.automation.siemens.com/mcms/mc/en/motors/motion-control-motors/simotics-m-main-motors/simotics-m-1ph8/Pages/simotics-m-1ph8.aspx

Configuration manual:
https://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/llisapi.dll?func=cslib.csinfo&lang=de&objid=46484744&caller=nl

Unfortunately the latest version 5/2012 is currently only in German available. The EN version 4/2010 includes not the current portfolio. The latest version in EN will be to download in about 4...6 weeks.

You could use the tool SIZER to select in easy way a possible motor:
https://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/llisapi.dll?func=cslib.csinfo&nodeid0=28311063&lang=en&siteid=csius&aktprim=0&extranet=standard&viewreg=WW&subtype=130000&nav0=index&objid=10804987&idx0=&idxSrc0=sizer

CAD-files via www.cad-creator.com

HP 250 means 184KW

For example 1PH8284-1xC4 with 171KW @ 700rpm. The motor exists with different rated points (windings). Bigger motors available as well.

Attached the characterisitc curve of the motor above.

Attachment: 1PH8284-1.C4.pdf  (11 Downloads)
Best regards
TechTeam
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  6/17/2012, 5:55 AM
PISCEAN 2010
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Hello TechTeam,
Thank you very much for your reply. As mentioned in my earlier post, this is heavy duty lathe. Maximum job loading capacity is of 40T. This main DC motor is used to rotate & brake such huge mass. (DC drive is of 4Q) To the best of my knowledge, the starting torque of DC shunt motor is very high & running torque is constant from low speed to its base speed range. With this 1PH8 series motor, is it possible to have same motor characteristics as that of DC motor i.e. achieve high starting as well as constant, torque during normal rotational speed?
Thanks & regards,
DEEP.



=== Edited by PISCEAN 2010 @ 6/17/2012 6:29 AM [GMT ] ===


Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I will remember. Involve me and I will understand. -Confucius
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  6/17/2012, 7:03 AM
PISCEAN 2010
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TechTeam wrote:
Hello,

in this power range the 1PH8 would fit. The motor exists as synchronous and asynchronous version, forced ventilation and water cooling.

Please follow the link:
https://intranet.automation.siemens.com/mcms/mc/en/motors/motion-control-motors/simotics-m-main-motors/simotics-m-1ph8/Pages/simotics-m-1ph8.aspx

Attached the characterisitc curve of the motor above.


Hello,
When trying to open above link, getting error meassage. Please find attached here with the screen shot of error message. Is there another way to visit or see above link information?
Thanks,
DEEP.

Attachment: Error message.JPG  (3 Downloads)
Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I will remember. Involve me and I will understand. -Confucius
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  6/19/2012, 2:29 PM
TechTeam
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Hello,

sorry, the link is only for internal use. Please try this one:
https://www.automation.siemens.com/mcms/mc/de/motoren/motion-control-motor/hauptmotor-simotics-m/simotics-m-1ph8/Seiten/simotics-m-1ph8.aspx

You can see the motor characteristic attached. Constant torque from start up to rated torque.

Attachment: 1PH8284-1.C4.pdf  (9 Downloads)
Best regards
TechTeam
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  6/28/2012, 7:41 AM
PISCEAN 2010
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Hello,
Thank you very much for your reply.While selection of motor which parameter should be more weighted, means power or Torque? According to me, both should meet. As per the original DC motor, its rated torque works out to be 5936.29 Nm. So I select a motor near by this rating as follows.
1PH8352, 370 Kw, Mrated = 7361 Nm. with spees range N2 max = 800, N max 2800 RPM.Is this correct?
Regards,
DEEP. 
Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I will remember. Involve me and I will understand. -Confucius
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  7/3/2012, 1:19 PM
TechTeam
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Hello,

it's equal because power = torque x omega (omega = 2 x pi x n)

So if you consider power of the DC motor please consider power of the 1PH8 as well.

Example: 184KW @ 300upm
M = 184KW / (2xpix300upm/60s) => M=5857Nm => the question is in which speed range you need this torque. The easiest way is to compare the motor characteristic curves.
Best regards
TechTeam
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  7/4/2012, 1:47 PM
PISCEAN 2010
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Hello,
What you say is true.
Kindly note in my case, present DC motor torque is 5936 Nm upto 300 RPM. The 1PH8284-, 184 Kw motor rated torque as per chart is 2333 Nm upto 700 RPM which is 60% less than the required torque. Hence I think this won't be an equivalent motor. Please see the attached sheet.
Do you agree this point? 
Regards,
DEEP.

Attachment: 1PH8284-1.C4[1].pdf  (4 Downloads)
Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I will remember. Involve me and I will understand. -Confucius
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  7/6/2012, 10:37 AM
TechTeam
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Hello,

yes, I definitly agree with you ! The 1PH8284-1.C would not fit for your requirement. It was only an example. If you really have 184KW @ 300rpm => you need a bigger 1PH8.
Best regards
TechTeam
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  7/6/2012, 11:00 AM
PISCEAN 2010
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Hello,
Yes & that is why I would like to get confirmation about my selection. Please advice whether my following selection is right or wrong?
So I select a motor near by this rating as follows.
1PH8352, 370 Kw, Mrated = 7361 Nm. with spees range N2 max = 800, N max 2800 RPM.Is this correct?
Regards,
DEEP. 
Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I will remember. Involve me and I will understand. -Confucius
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