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IM PROFINET with dual network redundancy

Thread Starter: Marinhorj   Started: 6/8/2012 3:12 PM   Replies: 6

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  6/8/2012, 3:12 PM
Marinhorj
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Dear,
 
Does anyone know if there is already IM PROFINET with dual network redundancy per CPU (S7-400H/F)?

If yes, what the model?
 
Thank you!
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  6/8/2012, 6:40 PM
dchartier
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Hello Marinho;
I hoe the following information and FAQs answer your question:

Supported PROFINET I/Os

At the time of delivery release, ET 200M stations are supported via the IM 153-4 High Feature (6ES7153-4BA00-0XB0). A new IM firmware is required for operation with the S7-400H; it is  available for download at entry ID 26331274. Previous versions can be upgraded.
 The new firmware has the new PROFINET function "System Redundancy" implemented, which is required for operation with the 400H. Other PN devices which do not support System Redundancy can be connected as "Onesided I/Os", i.e. allocated to only one of the two CPUs. Other PN devices that already support System Redundancy can be integrated via a suitable GSD file.

Delivery Release for S7-400H V6 Including PROFINET Support  

System Redundancy with IM153-4 PN IO High Feature 

Hope this helps,
Daniel Chartier



=== Edited by dchartier @ 6/8/2012 6:41 PM [GMT ] ===
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Marinhorj
  6/8/2012, 11:43 PM
Marinhorj
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Thank you Daniel!

The customer requirement is the dual network redundancy via IMs with CPUs, i.e, the two CPUs monitoring two networks (A and B) simultaneously, regardless of the redundancy between them (CPUs).

In the manual: SIMATIC Fault-tolerant systems S7-400H (A5E00267695-11), page 110, this requirement is met in part, as well as the references posted by you.

BRs
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  6/9/2012, 4:09 AM
fritz
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Hello Marinhorj

what your customer is after is the so called "PROFINET IO System redundancy" as far as PI is concerned.
This caters for usage two physically seperate Networks and PN I/O Devices with redundant Interface modules (e.g. two IM153-4's per station).
Good news is that the specification for it exists since May 2011 (if you are a member of PI you can download it from http://www.profibus.com/nc/downloads).
Bad news is that it is has not yet been implemented for S7 400H systems.
Note that the link provided by Daniel (System Redundancy with IM153-4 PN IO High Feature) does in fact use the term "System redundancy".
The current Siemens implementation does however NOT comply with PI's "PROFINET IO System redundancy" specification, but instead achieves the (perhaps lesser) "PROFINET IO Media redundancy" as specified by PI (which is also available for download from PI if you are a member).  

None of these naming confusions do of course help, so where does this all leave you and your customer?
He can either settle for the available PROFINET Media redundancy based solution (e.g single ring network and IM153-4 as per Daniel's links).
OR
settle for a tried and tested PROFIBUS System redundancy based solution (redundant Profibus Networks and IM153-2's)
OR
wait until S7 400 H systems support "true" PROFINET System redundancy (I can only assume that Siemens will implement this eventually). 

I hope this helps



=== Edited by fritz @ 6/9/2012 6:55 AM [GMT ] ===
Added naming confusion pragraph

Cheers

fritz

The advice and opinion given in this thread is that of the author and does not necessarily reflect the views of I S Systems Pty Limited.
To find out how I S Systems can help you with your automation needs please visit www.issystems.com.au.
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  6/10/2012, 4:20 PM
Marinhorj
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Thank you fritz!

Unfortunately, because of this requirement, the Siemens can not participate in the bidding.

According to Customer, two (2) competitors of Siemens, meet this requirement!

BRs

Marinho
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  6/11/2012, 3:46 PM
fritz
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Hello Marinhorj

would you happen to know if the Siemens competitors offer true "PROFINET IO System redundancy" and - if so - who they are (or is some other Industrial Ethernet protocol)?

Allow me also to suggest that you get in touch with your local Siemens rep and seek advise from him.
After all, the Siemens implementation may only be a firmwares throw away and/or my advise could even be wrong and it exist already.
Cheers

fritz

The advice and opinion given in this thread is that of the author and does not necessarily reflect the views of I S Systems Pty Limited.
To find out how I S Systems can help you with your automation needs please visit www.issystems.com.au.
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  6/14/2012, 3:07 PM
Marinhorj
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Dear fritz,

Thank you!

The question is not the protocol, but the dual network redundancy per CPU.

A Siemens Industry representative in Brazil, said that such a requirement may be met from August.

BRs,

Marinho
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